Discussion:
Whats wrong with this picture? Blake that's what!
(too old to reply)
sbrsct
2004-04-15 13:34:51 UTC
Permalink
How do you know what I am treated like Laura? In a word you don't.
Actually I probably know a lot more about you than you would be
comfortable
with... Real name, home address, place of work, driver's license, credit
history, vehicle information... you know the standard stuff you get back
in an investigator's report.
Can you say cyberstalker?? Yea this is preeetty spooky even if she is just
running her mouth! I'm not even bothering to post the really ugly stuff she
posted and she's calling me hostile? :-)
Laura you're too much!
....and what was Blake's answer?? >>> "Nope... just simple
self-protection."

What Blake is doing is called terrorism. He is not only a bag of
wind. He is trying to put fear into your head that he is going to do
something to you if you don't leave him alone. I crossposted this
also to ASSRS so those people can also see how Blake is acting-up as
of late.

Anyone who would go to the trouble of paying for an extended search on
someone and then using it as leverage to get what he wants in public
usenet is obviously out to do no good. Blake has a reputation of
threatening and verbally abusing everyone who gets in his way. He is
either extremely *PARANOIC*, or he would not be doing those things.
In real-life, he would be thrown through a plate glass window if he
ever played those types of games...not that it hasn't already
happened.



j
Jennifer Usher
2004-04-15 15:38:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by sbrsct
How do you know what I am treated like Laura? In a word you don't.
Actually I probably know a lot more about you than you would be
comfortable
with... Real name, home address, place of work, driver's license, credit
history, vehicle information... you know the standard stuff you get back
in an investigator's report.
Can you say cyberstalker?? Yea this is preeetty spooky even if she is just
running her mouth! I'm not even bothering to post the really ugly stuff she
posted and she's calling me hostile? :-)
Laura you're too much!
....and what was Blake's answer?? >>> "Nope... just simple
self-protection."
What Blake is doing is called terrorism. He is not only a bag of
wind. He is trying to put fear into your head that he is going to do
something to you if you don't leave him alone. I crossposted this
also to ASSRS so those people can also see how Blake is acting-up as
of late.
Anyone who would go to the trouble of paying for an extended search on
someone and then using it as leverage to get what he wants in public
usenet is obviously out to do no good. Blake has a reputation of
threatening and verbally abusing everyone who gets in his way. He is
either extremely *PARANOIC*, or he would not be doing those things.
In real-life, he would be thrown through a plate glass window if he
ever played those types of games...not that it hasn't already
happened.
I do hope everyone who is fed up with Lyle Blake will send a copy of his
original messages, including full headers, to ***@sympatico.ca. This sort
of behavior is criminal, and he should not be allowed to get away from it.
And IF Blake has actually managed to obtain a credit report on anyone, that
would constitute a serious crime under United States law. It is highly
illegal to access someone's credit records without written permission.
--
Jennifer Usher
Dave Scott
2004-04-15 16:16:08 UTC
Permalink
I have been lurking for a little while now. Trying to get the feel of the
group. But I have to say that I for one am appalled that someone would even
do such a thing. Let alone be stupid enough to admit doing it. It is not
only a crime in the United States but also a violation of ones
constitutional right to privacy. If it were me I would not only be filling
criminal charges against Blake I would also be suing for the invasion of
privacy. I can say without that I will NEVER ask Blake for any advice after
or pay any attention to her after this statement. And her use of profanity
is really overwhelming. Blake is definitely going into my kill file.
Post by sbrsct
How do you know what I am treated like Laura? In a word you don't.
Actually I probably know a lot more about you than you would be
comfortable
with... Real name, home address, place of work, driver's license,
credit
Post by sbrsct
history, vehicle information... you know the standard stuff you get
back
Post by sbrsct
in an investigator's report.
Can you say cyberstalker?? Yea this is preeetty spooky even if she is
just
Post by sbrsct
running her mouth! I'm not even bothering to post the really ugly
stuff
she
Post by sbrsct
posted and she's calling me hostile? :-)
Laura you're too much!
....and what was Blake's answer?? >>> "Nope... just simple
self-protection."
What Blake is doing is called terrorism. He is not only a bag of
wind. He is trying to put fear into your head that he is going to do
something to you if you don't leave him alone. I crossposted this
also to ASSRS so those people can also see how Blake is acting-up as
of late.
Anyone who would go to the trouble of paying for an extended search on
someone and then using it as leverage to get what he wants in public
usenet is obviously out to do no good. Blake has a reputation of
threatening and verbally abusing everyone who gets in his way. He is
either extremely *PARANOIC*, or he would not be doing those things.
In real-life, he would be thrown through a plate glass window if he
ever played those types of games...not that it hasn't already
happened.
I do hope everyone who is fed up with Lyle Blake will send a copy of his
of behavior is criminal, and he should not be allowed to get away from it.
And IF Blake has actually managed to obtain a credit report on anyone, that
would constitute a serious crime under United States law. It is highly
illegal to access someone's credit records without written permission.
--
Jennifer Usher
dgk
2004-04-15 18:30:54 UTC
Permalink
Yeah dave you or any one can't sue someone whos on welfare I'll get tossed
out!
Post by Dave Scott
I have been lurking for a little while now. Trying to get the feel of the
group. But I have to say that I for one am appalled that someone would even
do such a thing. Let alone be stupid enough to admit doing it. It is not
only a crime in the United States but also a violation of ones
constitutional right to privacy. If it were me I would not only be filling
criminal charges against Blake I would also be suing for the invasion of
privacy. I can say without that I will NEVER ask Blake for any advice after
or pay any attention to her after this statement. And her use of profanity
is really overwhelming. Blake is definitely going into my kill file.
Post by sbrsct
How do you know what I am treated like Laura? In a word you don't.
Actually I probably know a lot more about you than you would be
comfortable
with... Real name, home address, place of work, driver's license,
credit
Post by sbrsct
history, vehicle information... you know the standard stuff you get
back
Post by sbrsct
in an investigator's report.
Can you say cyberstalker?? Yea this is preeetty spooky even if she is
just
Post by sbrsct
running her mouth! I'm not even bothering to post the really ugly
stuff
she
Post by sbrsct
posted and she's calling me hostile? :-)
Laura you're too much!
....and what was Blake's answer?? >>> "Nope... just simple
self-protection."
What Blake is doing is called terrorism. He is not only a bag of
wind. He is trying to put fear into your head that he is going to do
something to you if you don't leave him alone. I crossposted this
also to ASSRS so those people can also see how Blake is acting-up as
of late.
Anyone who would go to the trouble of paying for an extended search on
someone and then using it as leverage to get what he wants in public
usenet is obviously out to do no good. Blake has a reputation of
threatening and verbally abusing everyone who gets in his way. He is
either extremely *PARANOIC*, or he would not be doing those things.
In real-life, he would be thrown through a plate glass window if he
ever played those types of games...not that it hasn't already
happened.
I do hope everyone who is fed up with Lyle Blake will send a copy of his
sort
of behavior is criminal, and he should not be allowed to get away from it.
And IF Blake has actually managed to obtain a credit report on anyone,
that
would constitute a serious crime under United States law. It is highly
illegal to access someone's credit records without written permission.
--
Jennifer Usher
Stephe
2004-04-16 02:25:41 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:16:08 -0400, "Dave Scott"
Post by Dave Scott
If it were me I would not only be filling
criminal charges against Blake I would also be suing for the invasion of
privacy. I can say without that I will NEVER ask Blake for any advice
after or pay any attention to her after this statement. And her use of
profanity is really overwhelming. Blake is definitely going into my kill
file.
It's real easy to take a single message, out of context and build a case
against someone. Put it into context... YEARS of being stalked.
Come on Laura, "stalked"? I could care less about you and your 3D life! And
anyone is free to read through what I've posted. All my posts are archived
at google, I'm not ashamed of what I've written.
YEARS of
being flamed.
Years since I've posted here is more like it! I subscribed to see what was
going on in the CD groups, of course it's "The Laura Blake Show" with you
at the center of a crossposted flame war with a bunch of TS's you've been
insulting (with -you- doing the cross posting) and you lite into me like a
mad man because I still don't agree with your ideas or your vulgar insults.
Even this thread you're -doing damage control- changing the groups it's
posted to. Trying to retreat back into the CD groups..
YEARS of being lied about.
Please repost ONE lie.... You're pissed I brought up your -outing- of Lacey
Leigh and looks like you're about to do it again. WTF is wrong with you?
--
Stephe
Chris Schack
2004-04-16 17:05:42 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Stephe
YEARS of being lied about.
Please repost ONE lie.... You're pissed I brought up your -outing- of Lacey
Leigh and looks like you're about to do it again. WTF is wrong with you?
If I were to tell you that at least one of the points in that
"Laura Blake FAQ" was false, and could be proven so given what
I've seen, would you believe me? Actually, the last time I
brought this up it was dismissed ... there appears to BE no
acceptable proof that there are lies in that.

Chris Schack
Jennifer Usher
2004-04-16 20:33:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Schack
If I were to tell you that at least one of the points in that
"Laura Blake FAQ" was false, and could be proven so given what
I've seen, would you believe me? Actually, the last time I
brought this up it was dismissed ... there appears to BE no
acceptable proof that there are lies in that.
Tell me what is a lie, and provide me with verifiable proof, and I will
remove it. Simply saying, "There are lies in there," when the entire thing
is based on stuff that is in the public record, is not good enough. The
proof has to be something that can be verified. That is all anyone has
every asked for, and it has NEVER been forthcoming.
--
Jennifer Usher
Elaine
2004-04-16 20:38:41 UTC
Permalink
X-No-Archive: yes
Post by Jennifer Usher
Post by Chris Schack
If I were to tell you that at least one of the points in that
"Laura Blake FAQ" was false, and could be proven so given what
I've seen, would you believe me? Actually, the last time I
brought this up it was dismissed ... there appears to BE no
acceptable proof that there are lies in that.
Tell me what is a lie, and provide me with verifiable proof, and I
will remove it. Simply saying, "There are lies in there," when the
entire thing is based on stuff that is in the public record, is not
good enough. The proof has to be something that can be verified.
That is all anyone has every asked for, and it has NEVER been
forthcoming.
If Blake is gone and remains gone, then we just need to forget about him.
Jennifer Usher
2004-04-17 16:38:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elaine
If Blake is gone and remains gone, then we just need to forget about him.
I agree completely.
--
Jennifer Usher
Chris Schack
2004-04-20 13:32:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jennifer Usher
Post by Chris Schack
If I were to tell you that at least one of the points in that
"Laura Blake FAQ" was false, and could be proven so given what
I've seen, would you believe me? Actually, the last time I
brought this up it was dismissed ... there appears to BE no
acceptable proof that there are lies in that.
Tell me what is a lie, and provide me with verifiable proof, and I will
remove it. Simply saying, "There are lies in there," when the entire thing
is based on stuff that is in the public record, is not good enough. The
proof has to be something that can be verified. That is all anyone has
every asked for, and it has NEVER been forthcoming.
Go look it up. I've said it before, and I don't use X-no-archive.

Chris Schack
Jennifer Usher
2004-04-23 14:46:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Schack
Post by Jennifer Usher
Tell me what is a lie, and provide me with verifiable proof, and I will
remove it. Simply saying, "There are lies in there," when the entire thing
is based on stuff that is in the public record, is not good enough. The
proof has to be something that can be verified. That is all anyone has
every asked for, and it has NEVER been forthcoming.
Go look it up. I've said it before, and I don't use X-no-archive.
It would be very difficult, if not impossible, to find something that vague
in Google. So, again, if you have something, post it.
--
Jennifer Usher
Stephe
2004-04-17 03:51:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Schack
<snip>
Post by Stephe
YEARS of being lied about.
Please repost ONE lie.... You're pissed I brought up your -outing- of
Lacey Leigh and looks like you're about to do it again. WTF is wrong with
you?
If I were to tell you that at least one of the points in that
"Laura Blake FAQ" was false, and could be proven so given what
I've seen, would you believe me? Actually, the last time I
brought this up it was dismissed ... there appears to BE no
acceptable proof that there are lies in that.
What does that have to do with me? I've never linked to that FAQ or quoted
it etc. I asked to repost all the lies I've been posting she claims. She
can't defend her actions against me because of something Diane did or do
you feel she has that right?
--
Stephe
Chris Schack
2004-04-20 13:46:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephe
Post by Chris Schack
<snip>
Post by Stephe
YEARS of being lied about.
Please repost ONE lie.... You're pissed I brought up your -outing- of
Lacey Leigh and looks like you're about to do it again. WTF is wrong with
you?
If I were to tell you that at least one of the points in that
"Laura Blake FAQ" was false, and could be proven so given what
I've seen, would you believe me? Actually, the last time I
brought this up it was dismissed ... there appears to BE no
acceptable proof that there are lies in that.
What does that have to do with me? I've never linked to that FAQ or quoted
it etc. I asked to repost all the lies I've been posting she claims. She
can't defend her actions against me because of something Diane did or do
you feel she has that right?
Laura was speaking in the context of her presence on the Internet, and
what other people (not necessarily you) were saying about her. That
FAQ thing is quite widespread, so makes a good example in that context.

Chris Schack
Stephe
2004-04-21 00:08:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Schack
Laura was speaking in the context of her presence on the Internet, and
what other people (not necessarily you) were saying about her.
So why would that even be a 'defense' of her actions towards me?
Post by Chris Schack
That
FAQ thing is quite widespread, so makes a good example in that context.
So Chris can we assume you feel it's OK what she's done here; threatening to
post illegally obtained personal information about me unless I start
posting in a way that she approves of?

If not, why are you defending her actions?
--
Stephe
a***@asdf.net
2004-04-21 01:09:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephe
If not, why are you defending her actions?
I don't think Chris is so much defending Blake as trying to get you to see
that you've got this all twisted around. Nobody is defending Blake but some
of us are interested in the truth.
Stephe
2004-04-21 05:01:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@asdf.net
Post by Stephe
If not, why are you defending her actions?
I don't think Chris is so much defending Blake as trying to get you to see
that you've got this all twisted around.
How so, I think I understand what has happened! :-)

I never said I was going to prosecute her or report any of this etc. Now if
she started posting all this private information all over the net I might
feel the need to do -something-, don't you agree with that? I find it kinda
disturbing if she actually did gather all this information on me (several
years ago she claims), wouldn't you? And would you agree that this threat
to post my private information if I don't follow her rules is bad for these
groups?
Post by a***@asdf.net
Nobody is defending Blake
Well I've seen Chris defend everything Laura has ever done in the past, I'm
just curious if he feels what she is doing now is OK with him too. He
defended her outing someone else a couple of years ago, I guess he'd defend
her outing me as well? Well since I'm already out as a TG, I guess it would
be more posting my address, phone numbers, work address etc that wouldn't
be something I'd want put on the internet. Common sense would explain that.
Post by a***@asdf.net
but some of us are interested in the truth.
As far as the truth? Who knows. All I know is Laura claims to have gathered
all this private information on me and then threatened to post it (and
possible call my work etc) if I don't start posting like she feels is
apropriate, in other words don't disagree with her. I have no idea if she
actually has this information or not, all I know is what she has posted,
which is still on my newsfeed's server. I've saved copies of this BS in
case she does start posting my private info all over the place. Also seems
odd that LB has disappeared, she must have a clue that what she's done
isn't kosher...
--
Stephe
a***@asdf.net
2004-04-20 06:24:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephe
Post by a***@asdf.net
I don't think Chris is so much defending Blake as trying to get you to see
that you've got this all twisted around.
How so, I think I understand what has happened! :-)
This isn't to attack you Stephe. It is to get at the truth.

Please go back and re-read everything between you and Blake since the middle
of last month. But this time pretend it's between Janet and Mary, not you
and Blake. See what you get from it. Blake is a bad actor, nobody's making
excuses for him. But you had a hand in agitating the situation, too. From
your first message you've been very angry and rapidly fell into a series of
accusations about past behaviors. Not a crime but not very good diplomacy
either.

This link is for the first article you posted this year
http://www.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3dx3c.658%24xL3.406%40bignews1.bellsouth.net

You began by attacking Blake. Since then it's been a constant tug of war
between you. Can you think of a way you might have joined in without being
so provocative?
Post by Stephe
I never said I was going to prosecute her or report any of this etc. Now if
she started posting all this private information all over the net I might
feel the need to do -something-, don't you agree with that?
Yes I do. If Blake did something unprovoked, like threatening to out you
while you were being nice to him I would help find you a lawyer here in
Canada to handle the prosecution.
Post by Stephe
I find it kinda
disturbing if she actually did gather all this information on me (several
years ago she claims), wouldn't you? And would you agree that this threat
to post my private information if I don't follow her rules is bad for these
groups?
The thing is I'm not convinced he actually made an illegal threat. Consider
that when you joined in Blake was already being attacked. You began your
presence here by attacking him. Moreover there is a history of hostilities
between the two of you. Was he trying to force you to follow his rules or
was he simply trying to get you off his back?

At the risk of incurring your wrath, from where I sit it looked a lot more
like two very angry people venting on one and other than anything like you
being pushed around. You gave as good as you got.
Post by Stephe
Post by a***@asdf.net
Nobody is defending Blake
Well I've seen Chris defend everything Laura has ever done in the past, I'm
just curious if he feels what she is doing now is OK with him too.
Don't ask me. Ask Chris.
Post by Stephe
Post by a***@asdf.net
but some of us are interested in the truth.
As far as the truth? Who knows.
The truth as far as this situation goes certainly does look like you are
both equally guilty. You for provoking the situation, Blake for trying to
intimidate you.

Neither of you is innocent.
Post by Stephe
All I know is Laura claims to have gathered
all this private information on me and then threatened to post it
Problem is, I didn't see that. I saw him playing head games with you. I
him trying to intimidate you. But I also saw a couple of times when he made
it very plain he wasn't going to publish your information. You might like
to look over those messages again because I think you overlooked that part.

Things often look very different when cooler heads prevail, Stephe. I doubt
Blake will learn from this but maybe you can.
Post by Stephe
I've saved copies of this BS in
case she does start posting my private info all over the place. Also seems
odd that LB has disappeared, she must have a clue that what she's done
isn't kosher...
He did post a farewell message.
Stephe
2004-04-22 01:58:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@asdf.net
You began by attacking Blake. Since then it's been a constant tug of war
between you. Can you think of a way you might have joined in without
being so provocative?
Well I started reading this group after leaving several years ago (mainly in
responce to her outing of Lacey Leigh) and of course almost every post is
still Laura this and that with her blasting away at everyone in sight. I
admit this was strong but then again it wasn't abusive either. I was
serious when I said "What sucks is you aren't even in the group of people
this newsgroup is suposed to support!" Why does Laura call the CD groups
"home" when she isn't even a CD?

Her responce of course was "Well sweety, if you don't like it here...
LEAVE." which is eactly what most people have done and still do. I know her
actions in the past alone are why I left several years ago along with
dozens of other people who had a very positive influence on these groups
--- Laura-- is here still running people off and starting flame wars.
Post by a***@asdf.net
At the risk of incurring your wrath, from where I sit it looked a lot more
like two very angry people venting on one and other than anything like you
being pushed around. You gave as good as you got.
I guess I'm sick of Laura being the focal point of every trans newsgroup on
the net? I don't think I'm alone in this either... I went back and read
through some of this, you're right I wasn't posting with a calm head in
some of it, but I also don't believe it was anywhere near the level of crap
she was dishing out to me and others.
Post by a***@asdf.net
But I also saw a couple of times when he made
it very plain he wasn't going to publish your information. You might like
to look over those messages again because I think you overlooked that part.
She said in one post that if I didn't change my posting style she might
change her mind, doesn't inspire confidence. Personally I don't believe she
has any of this information, other than my old real name which she already
posted several times against my wishes.

I guess what continues to jerk my chain over the years is how she goes into
the TS groups stirring up a bunch of crap and then starts crossposting it
to the CD groups once she gets a bunch of TS's pissed off, to drag the
whole comunity into it. Then TS's assume anyone who live even sorta like
Laura does, must feel like she does and people like me get attacked by TS's
just because of how Laura is. I've experienced this first hand so I know
this is true.

Also I don't think being kind to Laura works, been there and tried that too.
She just turns around and attacks you personally if you disagree with
anything she says. As long as you say "damn right Laura", she's fine.
Question anything she says and then katy bar the doors...

I guess my point is I'm not asking for you or anyone to help me legally go
after her etc, just that there is -no- good enough reason to screw with
someones 3D life over anything said in a usenet newsgroup.
--
Stephe
a***@asdf.net
2004-04-22 03:09:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephe
Post by a***@asdf.net
You began by attacking Blake. Since then it's been a constant tug of war
between you. Can you think of a way you might have joined in without
being so provocative?
Well I started reading this group after leaving several years ago (mainly in
responce to her outing of Lacey Leigh) and of course almost every post is
still Laura this and that with her blasting away at everyone in sight.
I didn't ask you to justify your anger. I asked if there was a way you
could have joined the group without going after Blake.
Post by Stephe
Post by a***@asdf.net
At the risk of incurring your wrath, from where I sit it looked a lot more
like two very angry people venting on one and other than anything like you
being pushed around. You gave as good as you got.
I guess I'm sick of Laura being the focal point of every trans newsgroup on
the net?
So tell me why you chose to dredge out all this old business, making him
even more the focal point than before. Why not just ignore him and talk
with the others? Why was it necessary for you to confront him?
Post by Stephe
Also I don't think being kind to Laura works, been there and tried that too.
She just turns around and attacks you personally if you disagree with
anything she says. As long as you say "damn right Laura", she's fine.
Question anything she says and then katy bar the doors...
That was one of the things I went to Google looking for but didn't see. I
found one conversation between Blake and someone called "Wight". It took a
while to realize it was the same Blake considering how nicely they chatted.
Maybe Blake was trying to show a better side or maybe there is something
else underlying his anger.

One thing that was conspicuously absent from the several hundred messages I
read was any hint of compassion for Blake. Looking at his reactions is not
unlike watching someone who is trapped in an abusive relationship. Blake
exhibits an inordinately short fuse with a lot of people. It's like he's
expecting to be hit; trying to dodge the punch. Not to excuse the character
flaw but sometimes that kind of reaction is a result of a long history of
being picked on; something like a cornered animal.
Post by Stephe
I guess my point is I'm not asking for you or anyone to help me legally go
after her etc, just that there is -no- good enough reason to screw with
someones 3D life over anything said in a usenet newsgroup.
We all want this to be separate. It shouldn't be real. What we do here
shouldn't count for much. But like it or not the internet is here to stay
and it does affect people's lives. It has become part of our reality.

There can be little doubt Blake has upset a lot of people. But in reading
those archived articles with no special interest in either side of the
fracas, it's also plenty obvious a lot of people have gone out to hurt
Blake.

The whole thing strikes me like that famous case of two neighbors duking it
out in the courts for years, spending a lot of money, over a fence that's
one foot over the property line. All that time and no judge, no lawyer, and
neither of these guy's wives ever thought of the simple answer. Neighbor A
sells 1 foot of property to Neighbor B. Lives have been ruined by less.

Anyway, I think I've said all I want to say about this. So now it's back to
being a reader.
Wight
2004-04-22 11:12:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@asdf.net
That was one of the things I went to Google looking for but didn't see. I
found one conversation between Blake and someone called "Wight". It took a
while to realize it was the same Blake considering how nicely they chatted.
Maybe Blake was trying to show a better side or maybe there is something
else underlying his anger.
Referring to her as he won't help.

I've actually not been very involved in the newsgroups at the moment, just
chance I saw this one becuase I've just been marking most messages read
without reading them. Laura can be a really nice person to talk to, and she
is perfectly capable of calm, rational and pleasent conversation.

Presumably the others in this arguements are capable as well. The problem
here is that tempers are very raised and people are volitile. I could take
a stance on whose fault it is but I don't want to get that involved, so I'll
stay quiet on that one. Enough to say I don't think these arguements are
getting anyone anywhere. I'd occasional post when I thought I had something
constructive to say, but there's a distinct lack of contructive
conversations at the moment.

I'm personally tired of the fighting, I've already added three people to my
kill files, I'd add more if I thought I was going to be spending any time on
these groups.

Wight
Stephe
2004-04-23 01:51:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@asdf.net
Post by Stephe
I guess I'm sick of Laura being the focal point of every trans newsgroup
on the net?
So tell me why you chose to dredge out all this old business, making him
even more the focal point than before. Why not just ignore him and talk
with the others? Why was it necessary for you to confront him?
Just wondering why you feel that calling Laura -him- and -he- isn't being
confrontational? Seems odd to me.
--
Stephe
Chris Schack
2004-04-28 14:30:08 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Stephe
Post by a***@asdf.net
Nobody is defending Blake
Well I've seen Chris defend everything Laura has ever done in the past, I'm
just curious if he feels what she is doing now is OK with him too. He
defended her outing someone else a couple of years ago, I guess he'd defend
her outing me as well? Well since I'm already out as a TG, I guess it would
be more posting my address, phone numbers, work address etc that wouldn't
be something I'd want put on the internet. Common sense would explain that.
Everything? Well, if you say so ... but if Laura is going to go posting
people's addresses and phone numbers, I'll be the first to protest,
especially because I know EXACTLY what it's like (plus there was a
picture). That was all done via anonymous remailers and made to appear
to come from me, except for the first post linking to the picture, which
was from Diane.

Chris Schack

Amanda Angelika
2004-04-17 15:23:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Schack
<snip>
Post by Stephe
YEARS of being lied about.
Please repost ONE lie.... You're pissed I brought up your -outing-
of Lacey Leigh and looks like you're about to do it again. WTF is
wrong with you?
If I were to tell you that at least one of the points in that
"Laura Blake FAQ" was false, and could be proven so given what
I've seen, would you believe me? Actually, the last time I
brought this up it was dismissed ... there appears to BE no
acceptable proof that there are lies in that.
Chris Schack
I don't think there is much doubt that Diane's FAQ about Laura was a bit
of a demolition job. But lets face it, even a half lie is half true...

To be honest though I don't think Diane's FAQ has anything to do with
the reasons why LB falls out with everyone. People have made there own
assessment of what LB is like.

The only reason LB mentions Diane's FAQ at all is to give people the
impression that everyone who falls out with her are simply empty headed
people who have no mind or judgement of their own and blindly follow
Diane's FAQ.

But this is nonsense, people *do*, and *have* made their own assessment
of LB, and Diane's FAQ is not the problem. LB is the problem. :(
--
Amanda
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Stephe
2004-04-16 02:32:45 UTC
Permalink
1) This is not confined to a handful of newsgroups. It is happening as
much
in my day to day life, where you can see it, as it is here. Most
recently one of the fuckups (Amanda) actually wrote to the police saying
that I was online bragging about committing welfare abuse... and she did
this simply as
a result of doing poorly in a debate *with someone else*. On previous
occasions there have been accusations of making death threats,
pedophilia, selling kiddie porn, filing false disability claims,
defrauding the
government out of funding... even terrorism. Until I got orders having
it taken down there was a slander site, widely advertised, spreading lies
and defaming me and before that some of my best work was plagiarized and
showed up in a thinly disguised form in a self-published book put out by
one of the worst flamers I've ever had to deal with.
Now hold on a minute. Lacey Leigh, the person you are referring
to arrived in this NG in 98 and I arrived a year later. You two
got along about as well as you and I do. There were a few
arguments now and then, often caused by your social=political
differences.
Laura: left wing european style socialist type
lacey: Right wing rocky mountain individualist.
We all know what Lacey thought about people on welfare, and how
much she hated government in general even being opposed to laws
dealing with TG. And her various messages talking about her
financial situation could come across as bragging at times.
but it was quite obvious that Lacey thought highly of you.. It
was only after Lacey did the book that your relationship went to
hell.
And there was NO plagiarism. I know her writing style and I know
yours. You're the" pedantic academecian" she's the "pop
psychologist". Her books dealt with heterosexual crossdressers
not TG in general. There was plenty of TG issues she did not
cover so you still could have done a book.
Example: There are tons of Linux books out there. almost all of
them have a section on how to use the Vi editor. Just because
one does that didn't stop other authors from doing it too.
Because you CAN write books about the SAME subject that FEEL
totally different. If I was to write a book about say makeup
that doesn't mean that no one else can write about makeup, or
that other people haven't done so in the past.
If your publisher turned down your book proposoal perhaps they
lied to you about the reason. Perhaps the real reason is that
your book wouldn't sell being a dull pedantic book filled
activist jargon. That's how you write. You've got better, yes,
but still you don't know how to write for a general audience.
Being able to write proposals or documentation for the various
Canadian human rights commissions does not mean you are capable
of writing a book that would be a commercial success.
And some of your anger at Lacey is due to jealousy pure and
simple. "The student has become the teacher" While you were
wasting your time flaming Usher, Haugh,Diane spending way too
much time on the newsgroups she actually wrote a book. Sure
you've got that 10000 or whatever pages but is it book ready?
And yes, she self published it, she had the money and means (Yes
I wish she hadn't) But she actually DID something rather than
bask in past glories. She did something that helped more people
than just what visit this newsgroup.
I still haven't forgiven you for what you did to Lacey. Still you
continue to use Lacey's male name even when she never used that
name here. You are still jealous, bitter and are still very much
in the wrong on this issue.
You can still write a book, quit your complaints about Lacey, and
other excuses and do it Just make it a GOOD book.
Veronica
yes Yes, I'm going to get the fuckwit- fuck off asshole response.
You are so predictable.
The thing Laura doesn't get is Lacey paid to have this book published with
her own money. She actually did the WORK it took to get the job done
instead of bellyaching and insulting/blaming other people.
--
Stephe
Willow
2004-04-16 03:10:35 UTC
Permalink
Dear Stephe,

I have not read the book - "My Husband Betty" by Helen Boyd is a good
alternative.

The threats of Laura may, I think, be taken with a grain of salt. She and
others here get off on insulting others - a shame but outside of the zoo
they are harmless. Look at it this way - if Laura had the skills to do all
that with a computer - or to write a book for that matter, would she be
where she is? Doubtful. If only due to self-interest.

I don't even think it is worth the time and effort to complain, although the
threat I have seen is worthy of a complaint. Unhappily, on this newsgroup,
that is simply the territory.

Lacey is to be congratulated, as is any writer, on actually seeing a project
through to completion. With all the time Laura spends on this group, I
don't think she would have any time left over to do a book - or anything
else for that matter.

Willow




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Stephe
2004-04-16 03:25:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willow
Dear Stephe,
I have not read the book - "My Husband Betty" by Helen Boyd is a good
alternative.
The threats of Laura may, I think, be taken with a grain of salt.
Oh I know she's blowing hot air, she claimed to have had "someone contact my
boss". We are very close and he has told me every time, even someone legit,
has called asking about me as we're pretty close friends. I'd know if
Laura's "investigator" had called.
Post by Willow
I don't even think it is worth the time and effort to complain, although
the threat I have seen is worthy of a complaint.
It wouldn't do any good. I could complain to her ISP but if they did boot
her, she'd just get another. Shame she can't do something more productive
with her time other thaqn threatening people etc, since she doesn't work
etc she COULD do a lot of good instead of playing games on usenet.
--
Stephe
Willow
2004-04-16 03:37:36 UTC
Permalink
Hi Stephe,

There are some in this world who's sole purpose is to serve as a bad
example. Laura appears to be one such a person.

She has made many claims. I never did follow up on any of her statements as
it did not seem worth the time. *If* she did some of the things she said
she did, she has obviously chanced for a contributor to a rather sick
person. If she did not, then she was sick all along. Makes little
difference either way. Even a good past is no excuse for a horrid present.

For a time, in private, she actually seemed reasonable. The TG/TS thing is
silly enough without labouring it as she does. Placing a label on someone
and then using that as a means of attack is a sick type of behaviour but
then joining a supposed SRS *support* group merely to insult those there
does not show a whole lot of brains either...

Willow.
Post by Stephe
Post by Willow
Dear Stephe,
I have not read the book - "My Husband Betty" by Helen Boyd is a good
alternative.
The threats of Laura may, I think, be taken with a grain of salt.
Oh I know she's blowing hot air, she claimed to have had "someone contact my
boss". We are very close and he has told me every time, even someone legit,
has called asking about me as we're pretty close friends. I'd know if
Laura's "investigator" had called.
Post by Willow
I don't even think it is worth the time and effort to complain, although
the threat I have seen is worthy of a complaint.
It wouldn't do any good. I could complain to her ISP but if they did boot
her, she'd just get another. Shame she can't do something more productive
with her time other thaqn threatening people etc, since she doesn't work
etc she COULD do a lot of good instead of playing games on usenet.
--
Stephe
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Amanda Angelika
2004-04-16 11:32:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willow
With all the time Laura spends on
this group, I don't think she would have any time left over to do a
book - or anything else for that matter.
The funny thing is she could just pinch most of Diane's old Tranny Troll
site and call it...

"My life as a Tranny Troll"
By Laura Flame Blame LOL
--
Amanda
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Jessika
2004-04-16 16:07:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Amanda Angelika
Post by Willow
With all the time Laura spends on
this group, I don't think she would have any time left over to do a
book - or anything else for that matter.
The funny thing is she could just pinch most of Diane's old Tranny Troll
site and call it...
"My life as a Tranny Troll"
By Laura Flame Blame LOL
--
Amanda
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Well?! That's what I would write a book on! Being TG/TS, I'm not
understanding how you all are thinking about writing about everything other
than TG/TSism.

Jess

Do as thou Will, that is the sum of The Law.
(just do so, with knowledge, that all \will\ may have consequence)
Stephe
2004-04-16 02:45:15 UTC
Permalink
2) When people start screwing me around in real life --costing me REAL
money-- they give up their right to privacy.
I've never done anything of the sort, yet still you've -taken- my right to
privacy, threatened me with it and still continue to defend your right to
do this kind of BS?

BTW posting my old real name here isn't something I like you doing either
and you've been told this several times, I asked you not to do this yet you
continue to do it and now claim I'm screwing with you?
I have a RIGHT to defend
myself against these accusations and I WILL exercise that right.
Never threated to do anything to you in 3D or otherwise, yet you now are
threatening my job, privacy etc?
4) I've had this information for a couple of years now. Were I of evil
intent I would have put it to use a long time ago.
A couple of years? Do a google search and see when the last time I even
posted here was and what was said. See for yourself if I deserve to be
stalked like this!
What makes you think that you have the
right to do this when the police need to get a court order to do it.
You DO NOT need a court order to investigate someone. Most of the
information comes from public sources -- phone books, reverse directories,
credit checks, etc. And there is no law against talking to people...
Running a credit check is illegal without my permission.
All you have done here is show me that
you are a low-life that is NOT to be trusted.
You're entitled to your opinion of course... but it might be a good idea
for you to form that opinion on something more than your own nervousness
and the deliberate distortions of others.
Try getting both sides of the story first...
Well here it is, all I've done is disagreed with Laura, never threaned her
etc yet this is what she is doing to silence me. Really makes this a "warm
place" for people to come for information and support when some netkook is
doing credit checks and DMV serches on people who don't agree with her!
--
Stephe
L D Blake
2004-04-16 03:55:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephe
Never threated to do anything to you in 3D or otherwise, yet you now are
threatening my job, privacy etc?
Nope. Got no such plans. I've had the info for nearly 2 years, if I was
intending to do anything with it I'd have done it while it was fresh.

However: if you keep going on like a drunken idiot and I just might change
my mind.

-----
L D Blake
Beth
2004-04-16 05:12:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by L D Blake
Post by Stephe
Never threated to do anything to you in 3D or otherwise, yet you now are
threatening my job, privacy etc?
Nope. Got no such plans. I've had the info for nearly 2 years, if I was
intending to do anything with it I'd have done it while it was fresh.
However: if you keep going on like a drunken idiot and I just might change
my mind.
-----
L D Blake
Hi Laura

Glad to see you still have a perfectly balanced personality...that is to say
a chip on both shoulders. I had you on my kill list but hey you change your
posting service so you reappear....like a troll you always say you are not.
How many times have you changed your isp/posting service...I know this is
not just a one off....

Over time I have watched you go from patronising to asserting to dictating
to abusing and then to threatening people in these newsgroups. You claim to
be such an expert in tg affairs but are such an amateur in human affairs
where a bit of flexibility on your part would go a long way to reducing
personal criticism of yourself. Red flag and bull come to mind when I
witness your interaction with those that you see as "less experienced" than
yourself(you can go into an endless justification of your life,what you have
done and who has done what to you.....and you normally do, defensive or
what!!). For someone who is so experienced in tg affairs you project such
an image of being a victim, which is so not what transgendered people are.
To be happy with the transgendered aspects of our life we must accept our
own responsibility for our lives and subsequent actions and take control.
Your behaviour in these newsgroups seems completely contrary to this model
and contrary to what you espouse.

Your own actions and words portray you as the victim and you hit out
agressively and often indiscriminately. You smash people who don't agree
with you, you hit out at those who point out your clay feet. Do you wonder
why you get abuse ?

You talk about tg rights yet show no respect for other people on this
newsgroup by invading their privacy, talking all over them and using foul
language to intimidate when arguments fail. I agree a small percentage like
Amanda....also on my kill list would make a saint swear but you are no angel
and Amanda has not been the only recipient of abuse from yourself.

I hope anyone reading this post will understand that when I came into these
newsgroups I talked to Laura and did recieve some helpful words of advice.
Unfortunately, over time the negative sides of Laura's personality have also
appeared. Her inability to accept that she is part of the problem stops her
from also accepting that she is also part of the solution. She does not see
why she has to adapt to the world but King Canute thought he could hold back
the tide too. It is a shame that the good that Laura could do is lost
because of how she chooses to deliver the message.


Beth

"Just because your not paranoid doesn't mean their not out to get you!"
L D Blake
2004-04-16 06:26:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beth
Glad to see you still have a perfectly balanced personality...that is to say
a chip on both shoulders. I had you on my kill list but hey you change your
posting service so you reappear....like a troll you always say you are not.
How many times have you changed your isp/posting service...I know this is
not just a one off....
Actually... I change my e-mail address periodically to avoid the inbox
getting loaded with spam. If you want to kill file me permanently just use
my name instead of the address.
Post by Beth
Over time I have watched you go from patronising to asserting to dictating
to abusing and then to threatening people in these newsgroups. You claim to
be such an expert in tg affairs but are such an amateur in human affairs
where a bit of flexibility on your part would go a long way to reducing
personal criticism of yourself.
And how much flexibility would you have me engage in?

If I listen to one group of people I'd be advocating the "life without
explanation" concept. Another group would have me telling people to dig a
new basement under their closets. Still another group would have me
advising that everyone should be totally out to everyone they meet. And yet
another would oppose me no matter what I said.

So tell me PLEASE, just what position should I take?
Post by Beth
For someone who is so experienced in tg affairs you project such
an image of being a victim, which is so not what transgendered people are.
The result of 10 years on the wrong end of a very ambitious stalker, hon.

I know you haven't SEEN it here... but believe me it did happen and it's
still happening.
Post by Beth
To be happy with the transgendered aspects of our life we must accept our
own responsibility for our lives and subsequent actions and take control.
Yep.
Post by Beth
Your behaviour in these newsgroups seems completely contrary to this model
and contrary to what you espouse.
Not at all... My single most adamant suggestion to anyone is that they take
charge of their lives. Coming out is one way to do this, as is working on
self-acceptance, self-esteem and internal validations.
Post by Beth
Your own actions and words portray you as the victim and you hit out
agressively and often indiscriminately. You smash people who don't agree
with you, you hit out at those who point out your clay feet. Do you wonder
why you get abuse ?
Sweetie, there is HISTORY here that you've obviously not been privy to.

Take Stephe for example... from your perspective she's a newbie who just
showed up a couple of weeks ago. In reality she has a 6 year history on
these newsgroups; and a not too pretty tendency to let people lead her
around by the nose. She started out a deeply closeted transvestite and a
lot of people put a lot of time into helping her... she gets listening to a
bunch of fuckups and this is the thanks we get.
Post by Beth
You talk about tg rights yet show no respect for other people on this
newsgroup by invading their privacy, talking all over them and using foul
language to intimidate when arguments fail.
Look again.

I have a personal policy... I NEVER draw first blood. But I also don't back
away from a bully. Yes it sometimes leads to conflict... but it's also part
of being in control of your own life.
Post by Beth
I agree a small percentage like
Amanda....also on my kill list would make a saint swear but you are no angel
and Amanda has not been the only recipient of abuse from yourself.
Once again... there is HISTORY here, to which you are obviously not privy.

For example here's Stephe's posting history...

http://www.google.ca/groups?safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_ugroup=alt.support.crossdressing&as_uauthors=stephe&as_scoring=d&lr=&hl=en

Go back a to the late 1990s and have a look... you'll see that she is
singing the exact same song today as she did back then. She has a rather
nasty habit of always siding with the flamers. Fool actually used to invite
them into the group, knowing full well what they'd do. It's always the same
thing with her... "Why are you taking hormones", "You're contradicting
yourself" and "Why can't you see things the way I say you should"... She's
been spewing the same bullshit for nearly 8 YEARS, Beth.


Then there's Diane Fuckwit Lask:

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_ugroup=alt.support.crossdressing&as_uauthors=diane%20&hl=en
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_ugroup=alt.support.srs&as_uauthors=diane%20&hl=en
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_ugroup=soc.support.transgendered&as_uauthors=diane%20&hl=en
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_ugroup=alt.fashion.crossdressing&as_uauthors=diane%20&hl=en
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_ugroup=alt.support.intergendered&as_uauthors=diane%20&hl=en

That's about 15,000 pieces of hate mail.


I know you make a big deal out of making up your own mind... But, honey, you
can't do that with only a tiny fraction of the needed information. There
are hostilities and injustices here that have been going on for MORE THAN A
DECADE ... you can't possibly get the whole picture without looking at the
history.
Post by Beth
I hope anyone reading this post will understand that when I came into these
newsgroups I talked to Laura and did recieve some helpful words of advice.
And you would still be getting that same courtesy if you hadn't suddenly
decided I was fresh shit on a sidewalk. Like so many others, you've jumped
to blaming me *because everyone else is blaming me* but you haven't really
taken the time to discover what's actually going on.
Post by Beth
Unfortunately, over time the negative sides of Laura's personality have also
appeared.
And what do you expect when I'm being *constantly* set upon for my every
word?
Post by Beth
Her inability to accept that she is part of the problem stops her
from also accepting that she is also part of the solution.
Oh I know I'm part of the problem here. Thing is, in real life I could deal
with this crap in a matter of a few minutes... here there's simply no way to
stop the fuckups from playing their asinine games.
Post by Beth
She does not see
why she has to adapt to the world but King Canute thought he could hold back
the tide too. It is a shame that the good that Laura could do is lost
because of how she chooses to deliver the message.
You might want to consider your own position in this.

Are you really helping end this bullshit or are you simply taking a
backhanded way of encouraging it?


-----
L D Blake
Jennifer Usher
2004-04-17 01:28:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by L D Blake
Actually... I change my e-mail address periodically to avoid the inbox
getting loaded with spam. If you want to kill file me permanently just use
my name instead of the address.
Using a email address like ***@somewhere.ca means you are not going to
get junk email. The ONLY reason you might change that to another email
address would be to escape kill files. So cut the crap. Of course, you do
have to occasionally change ISPs because you get booted.
Post by L D Blake
So tell me PLEASE, just what position should I take?
Hands against the wall, feet apart. You should be very familiar with that
one.
--
Jennifer Usher
Shae Guerin
2004-04-17 03:15:57 UTC
Permalink
Glad to see you still have a perfectly balanced personality...<snip> It is a shame that the good that Laura could do is lost
because of how she chooses to deliver the message.
Thank you, Beth, for a readable, pointed, cogent, and rational comeback
to LB's histrionics. Others in this covey of twits have been as mean,
and it makes for dull reading.

The saddest thing about all this is how it drives away the worthwhile
discussion out of AFCD, and, I'm sure, the other groups crossposted to.
Solipsism rules, especially how people like LB and Stephe think this
would have any bearing on the core-essence of our special interests.

Drat. At least summer, and yardwork time, approaches. And the band is
playing a large summer biker's bash, so we're sharpening up majorly.
Time to shut down the big deck from the Evil Internet, reformat and
dedicate 160 gigs to Cakewalk files. Again...

'bye!
Shae
Stephe
2004-04-16 06:05:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by L D Blake
Post by Stephe
Never threated to do anything to you in 3D or otherwise, yet you now are
threatening my job, privacy etc?
Nope. Got no such plans. I've had the info for nearly 2 years, if I was
intending to do anything with it I'd have done it while it was fresh.
Why would you do this anyway? I've never threatened you in any way so that
excuse doesn't fly.
Post by L D Blake
However: if you keep going on like a drunken idiot and I just might change
my mind.
Back to the terrorism antics are we? Threatening people's 3D lives to try to
silence them on these newsgroups?

What exactly do you plan on doing Laura? Post all this private info on the
trans groups in hopes some sicko will see it any maybe use it to find "a
faggot" (your words..) and cause me harm? Or doing like you did to Lacey
and posting inflamitory insults to groups involving my work in hope of
destroying my life that way? Or are you going to start harassing the people
where I work directly in hopes you'll get me fired?

Then we listen to you cry about people screwing with you in 3D while you
threaten to do the same thing yourself? Just like you cry about Diane
outing people and then do it yourself.

So what -is- the difference between you and them exactly?
--
Stephe
L D Blake
2004-04-16 06:30:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephe
So what -is- the difference between you and them exactly?
Right now? None.

The really sad thing about warfare is that you often have to be far worse
than your enemy to defeat them.

Back off and watch what happens... You've got a real self-defeating thing
going on here... you harass me then you blame me for getting pissed off.
Very Dianesque... very stupid.

-----
L D Blake
Jennifer Usher
2004-04-17 01:30:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by L D Blake
Back off and watch what happens... You've got a real self-defeating thing
going on here... you harass me then you blame me for getting pissed off.
Very Dianesque... very stupid.
Lyle, you come into newsgroups where you are not welcome, and then you get
angry if someone disagrees with you. I would call that simply insane.
--
Jennifer Usher
Elaine
2004-04-17 01:36:10 UTC
Permalink
X-No-Archive: yes
Post by Jennifer Usher
Post by L D Blake
Back off and watch what happens... You've got a real self-defeating
thing going on here... you harass me then you blame me for getting
pissed off. Very Dianesque... very stupid.
Lyle, you come into newsgroups where you are not welcome, and then
you get angry if someone disagrees with you. I would call that
simply insane.
Give it up, Jennifer. Let him go................You probably have a lot to
contribute if you let go of your vendetta..........:)
Jennifer Usher
2004-04-17 15:46:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elaine
Give it up, Jennifer. Let him go................You probably have a lot to
contribute if you let go of your vendetta..........:)
If Blake is gone, the subject is closed.
--
Jennifer Usher
L D Blake
2004-04-16 06:33:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephe
Why would you do this anyway? I've never threatened you in any way so that
excuse doesn't fly.
And what do you call this?

http://www.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=5Pscc.243%24ZB3.173%40bignews3.bellsouth.net

It sure don't look like no fucking peace treaty to me.


-----
L D Blake
Debra Lee
2004-04-16 13:45:26 UTC
Permalink
OK maybe I miss-read something on this. Where exactly is the threat??? All I
saw was stephe warning people about you. There was no threat to you.
Post by L D Blake
Post by Stephe
Why would you do this anyway? I've never threatened you in any way so that
excuse doesn't fly.
And what do you call this?
http://www.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=5Pscc.243%24ZB3.173%40bignews3.bellsouth.net
Post by L D Blake
It sure don't look like no fucking peace treaty to me.
-----
L D Blake
Jennifer Usher
2004-04-17 01:36:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Debra Lee
OK maybe I miss-read something on this. Where exactly is the threat??? All I
saw was stephe warning people about you. There was no threat to you.
Well, it is true that Lyle tries to fool people into thinking he is not the
stalker and psychopath he really is. Anything that shows him for what he
really is, like quoting his remarks, or warning people about his behavior,
is seen to be a threat by Blake.
--
Jennifer Usher
Jennifer Usher
2004-04-17 01:34:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by L D Blake
Post by Stephe
Why would you do this anyway? I've never threatened you in any way so that
excuse doesn't fly.
And what do you call this?
http://www.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=5Pscc.243%24ZB3.173%40bignews3.bellsouth.net
Post by L D Blake
It sure don't look like no fucking peace treaty to me.
It looks to me like you did something wrong, that you should be apologizing
for, and she called you on it. Nothing in the message is threatening. It
is simply an indictment of your behavior.
--
Jennifer Usher
Stephe
2004-04-17 04:01:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by L D Blake
Post by Stephe
Why would you do this anyway? I've never threatened you in any way so that
excuse doesn't fly.
And what do you call this?
http://www.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=5Pscc.243%24ZB3.173%40bignews3.bellsouth.net
Post by L D Blake
It sure don't look like no fucking peace treaty to me.
Shame you have your messages deleted so we can't see where you started
posting my old REAL NAME the same day elsewhere because my opinion opposed
your's. I post a warning to people that you will out them/post their
personal info and what do you do in responce? Threaten to post illegal
information you claim to have gathered about me! All you did was back up
what I said about you, where is the lie or the threat in that? :-)

Guess it's fun posting google links when you know people can't show what
you've done? Then again I bet people can guess what's happening..
--
Stephe
Amanda Angelika
2004-04-16 11:49:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephe
Post by L D Blake
Post by Stephe
Never threated to do anything to you in 3D or otherwise, yet you
now are threatening my job, privacy etc?
Nope. Got no such plans. I've had the info for nearly 2 years, if
I was intending to do anything with it I'd have done it while it was
fresh.
Why would you do this anyway? I've never threatened you in any way so
that excuse doesn't fly.
It seems one doesn't have to, e.g. Laura's been accusing me of reporting
her to the Canadian Police for Welfare Fraud, for months now, and if one
studies the background of that, one will find the only person to mention
the idea of Welfare Fraud was LB herself. I just said something along
the lines of maybe if she wanted to pontificate about being a "woman" or
"openly transgender" maybe she should get out a bit more, get a JOB! for
example. ROFL!
--
Amanda
--
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L D Blake
2004-04-16 14:52:26 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:49:12 +0100, "Amanda Angelika"
Post by Amanda Angelika
I just said something along
the lines of maybe if she wanted to pontificate about being a "woman" or
"openly transgender" maybe she should get out a bit more, get a JOB! for
example. ROFL!
http://www.google.ca/groups?q=g:thl1462815260d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_drrb=b&as_mind=29&as_minm=3&as_miny=1995&as_maxd=27&as_maxm=1&as_maxy=2004&selm=bv28ae%24bn5ps%241%40ID-172934.news.uni-berlin.de
Post by Amanda Angelika
I don't think
she would be allowed to stay on the sick in the UK they would have her
up before a special doctor who would ask her if she could climb a
stairs, and if she could they would pack her off to the Job Centre and
have her digging ditches with all the other social misfits, the
hideously obese, the illiterate, people with IQs below 60 and
ex-convicts who can't find work, within a year or so.
-----
L D Blake
Debra Lee
2004-04-16 16:11:46 UTC
Permalink
OK, should I be keeping all of my posts just in case Laura wants to use them
in a year from now.
Post by L D Blake
On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:49:12 +0100, "Amanda Angelika"
Post by Amanda Angelika
I just said something along
the lines of maybe if she wanted to pontificate about being a "woman" or
"openly transgender" maybe she should get out a bit more, get a JOB! for
example. ROFL!
http://www.google.ca/groups?q=g:thl1462815260d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_drrb=b&as_mind=29&as_minm=3&as_miny=1995&as_maxd=27&as_maxm=1&as_maxy=2004&selm=bv28ae%24bn5ps%241%40ID-172934.news.uni-berlin.de
Post by L D Blake
Post by Amanda Angelika
I don't think
she would be allowed to stay on the sick in the UK they would have her
up before a special doctor who would ask her if she could climb a
stairs, and if she could they would pack her off to the Job Centre and
have her digging ditches with all the other social misfits, the
hideously obese, the illiterate, people with IQs below 60 and
ex-convicts who can't find work, within a year or so.
-----
L D Blake
Amanda Angelika
2004-04-16 20:25:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by L D Blake
On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:49:12 +0100, "Amanda Angelika"
Post by Amanda Angelika
I just said something along
the lines of maybe if she wanted to pontificate about being a
"woman" or "openly transgender" maybe she should get out a bit more,
get a JOB! for example. ROFL!
http://www.google.ca/groups?q=g:thl1462815260d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_drrb=b&as_mind=29&as_minm=3&as_miny=1995&as_maxd=27&as_maxm=1&as_maxy=2004&selm=bv28ae%24bn5ps%241%40ID-172934.news.uni-berlin.de
Post by L D Blake
Post by Amanda Angelika
I don't think
she would be allowed to stay on the sick in the UK they would have
her up before a special doctor who would ask her if she could climb a
stairs, and if she could they would pack her off to the Job Centre
and have her digging ditches with all the other social misfits, the
hideously obese, the illiterate, people with IQs below 60 and
ex-convicts who can't find work, within a year or so.
That's a statement of fact. It just means UK benefits are not as soft as
Canadian ones. If you read that as entirely questioning your disability,
or rights to recieve welfare you misread it. Ok maybe I was teasing you
a bit, but I can assure you I was moaning about the UK benefits system
more that I was haveing a dig at you. But I can see how you might have
got the wrong impression and seen it in a more extreme way than it was
meant to be taken :(
--
Amanda
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Jennifer Usher
2004-04-16 20:55:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by L D Blake
Post by Stephe
Never threated to do anything to you in 3D or otherwise, yet you now are
threatening my job, privacy etc?
Nope. Got no such plans. I've had the info for nearly 2 years, if I was
intending to do anything with it I'd have done it while it was fresh.
However: if you keep going on like a drunken idiot and I just might change
my mind.
Lyle, I have forwarded a copy of this message, and the original to the RCMP.
I have also filed another complaint with your ISP. Not a joke, not a hoax,
not a threat. I seriously hope you take this opportunity to get
professional help. It might keep you out of jail.
--
Jennifer Usher
N
2004-04-16 22:33:09 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:55:33 GMT, "Jennifer Usher"
Post by Jennifer Usher
Lyle, I have forwarded a copy of this message, and the original to the RCMP.
I have also filed another complaint with your ISP.
No one is interfering in Lyle "Laura" Blake's life.
-----
L D Blake
Jennifer Usher
2004-04-17 01:40:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by N
On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:55:33 GMT, "Jennifer Usher"
Post by Jennifer Usher
Lyle, I have forwarded a copy of this message, and the original to the RCMP.
I have also filed another complaint with your ISP.
No one is interfering in Lyle "Laura" Blake's life.
I'm not interfering in your life. I am simply reporting a criminal to the
proper authorities. I honestly hope you are dealt with by the authorities
in Canada. Hopefully, it will be the mental health authorities, but the
police will do just fine.
--
Jennifer Usher
Chris Schack
2004-04-20 13:37:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jennifer Usher
Post by L D Blake
Post by Stephe
Never threated to do anything to you in 3D or otherwise, yet you now are
threatening my job, privacy etc?
Nope. Got no such plans. I've had the info for nearly 2 years, if I was
intending to do anything with it I'd have done it while it was fresh.
However: if you keep going on like a drunken idiot and I just might change
my mind.
Lyle, I have forwarded a copy of this message, and the original to the RCMP.
I have also filed another complaint with your ISP. Not a joke, not a hoax,
not a threat. I seriously hope you take this opportunity to get
professional help. It might keep you out of jail.
I wonder if contacting the police where you live and detailing just
what is going on would qualify as using the information. It could be
the only threat here is to do essentially what you say YOU just did...

Chris Schack
a***@asdf.net
2004-04-20 15:16:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Schack
Post by Jennifer Usher
Lyle, I have forwarded a copy of this message, and the original to the RCMP.
I have also filed another complaint with your ISP.
It could be
the only threat here is to do essentially what you say YOU just did...
Filing a false police report is a minor felony in California.
Offenders can spend up to 5 years in jail.
hudson
2004-04-19 02:40:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@asdf.net
Post by Chris Schack
Post by Jennifer Usher
Lyle, I have forwarded a copy of this message, and the original to the
RCMP. I have also filed another complaint with your ISP.
It could be
the only threat here is to do essentially what you say YOU just did...
Filing a false police report is a minor felony in California.
Offenders can spend up to 5 years in jail.
The RCMP, last time I looked, were in Canada.

Also, the complaint was about threatening to "out" someone against their
will, which is considered a hate crime in Canada.

We take hate crimes seriously up here - Montreal's police just formed a new
unit to deal specifically with hate crimes, including the recent torching
of a Jewish schools' library.
Seven
2004-04-20 17:14:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by hudson
Post by a***@asdf.net
Post by Chris Schack
Post by Jennifer Usher
Lyle, I have forwarded a copy of this message, and the original to the
RCMP. I have also filed another complaint with your ISP.
It could be
the only threat here is to do essentially what you say YOU just did...
Filing a false police report is a minor felony in California.
Offenders can spend up to 5 years in jail.
The RCMP, last time I looked, were in Canada.
Also, the complaint was about threatening to "out" someone against their
will, which is considered a hate crime in Canada.
Is your right to privacy protected on some level in Canada? I was under the
impression that your identity, even post-operative (for transsexuals)
remained consistent with the birth-sex. Has that changed? Is it now a
crime for others to notice, or note it?
Post by hudson
We take hate crimes seriously up here - Montreal's police just formed a new
unit to deal specifically with hate crimes, including the recent torching
of a Jewish schools' library.
That's pretty serious- but what has it to do with someone being "outed" on a
newsgroup? (not that I support that activity either)
a***@asdf.net
2004-04-20 17:40:19 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:14:23 GMT, "Seven"
Post by Seven
That's pretty serious- but what has it to do with someone being "outed" on a
newsgroup? (not that I support that activity either)
Reading this mess, all I see is a lot of angry people playing childish
games.
hudson
2004-04-19 05:15:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@asdf.net
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:14:23 GMT, "Seven"
Post by Seven
That's pretty serious- but what has it to do with someone being "outed" on a
newsgroup? (not that I support that activity either)
Reading this mess, all I see is a lot of angry people playing childish
games.
Agreed that it's a mess.

Unfortunately, when people try to coerce others by threatening them, and
have exhibited this same pattern in the past when asked to stop, it's not
prudent to ignore, because you never know just how far they'll go.

Additionally, the evidence indicates that Blake has already outed people who
disagree with him.

Now, since you posted using the name "I-prefer-privacy", I would think that
you'd agree that we should denounce thos who derive joy from violating
someone's privacy against both their wishes and current law.
a***@asdf.net
2004-04-20 19:20:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by hudson
Agreed that it's a mess.
Yes it is. But are you seeing it objectively?
Post by hudson
Unfortunately, when people try to coerce others by threatening them, and
have exhibited this same pattern in the past when asked to stop, it's not
prudent to ignore, because you never know just how far they'll go.
This is happening in both directions. Blake does appear to have attempted
coercion as a weapon against a couple of people. But it can also be said
that Blake is under attack and seeking a line of self-defense. A little
visit to the newsgroup archives at www.google.com will show you just how
much has gone on from both sides.

Superficially Blake appears to have done something wrong but it's not a
crime unless he discloses protected information such as credit card records,
medical history, etc.

A lot of information can be legitimately obtained from public sources. For
example: If someone mentions their home town in articles published on these
newsgroups, a simple call to directory assistance usually gets you their
phone number and street address. That is not a crime because the information
is published with the person's permission, in the phone book.

From the other side. Blake's birth name, home address and phone number was
published on a website that dynamited his credibility and begged people to
complain to his ISP. Google reveals thousands of articles attacking Blake,
many of which come from the person presently accusing Blake. In a courtroom
it would be perfectly reasonable to present this evidence to and ask why
this misbehavior is deemed acceptable when Blake's is not.

While your concerns are understandable you must be cautious about your
biases in these situations. You appear to be making accusations of
criminality without proof and without concern for context. It seems likely
most courts would write this off as nothing but a cat-fight and dismiss the
case when the actions of both sides are fully exposed. To make accusations
or suggest that others make accusations in such a circumstance could open
the door to reverse prosecution for harassment and making false police
reports.
Post by hudson
Additionally, the evidence indicates that Blake has already outed people who
disagree with him.
Once again: what were the sources of Blake's information?

If he took information published by the victim --in phone books, here, on
various websites, etc.-- and put it all together no crime has been committed
because the information was in fact published by the victim himself.

Moreover; if he used protected information disclosed by the victim in a
public place such as a website or here, there is no crime.

But if Blake published undisclosed protected information then you are
correct to think a crime may have been committed.

Once again you are left with the question of what information Blake has and
how he came into possession of it. Under Canada's laws it will fall to the
accusers and the crown to prove that Blake has protected information and was
intending to use it of malicious purposes.
Post by hudson
Now, since you posted using the name "I-prefer-privacy",
That was somebody else.
hudson
2004-04-19 07:04:13 UTC
Permalink
I'll deal with your comments inline. Hope this gives a clearer picture of
exactly what the issues are vis. Canadian law :-)
Post by a***@asdf.net
Post by hudson
Agreed that it's a mess.
Yes it is. But are you seeing it objectively?
Post by hudson
Unfortunately, when people try to coerce others by threatening them, and
have exhibited this same pattern in the past when asked to stop, it's not
prudent to ignore, because you never know just how far they'll go.
This is happening in both directions. Blake does appear to have attempted
coercion as a weapon against a couple of people. But it can also be said
that Blake is under attack and seeking a line of self-defense. A little
visit to the newsgroup archives at www.google.com will show you just how
much has gone on from both sides.
Superficially Blake appears to have done something wrong but it's not a
crime unless he discloses protected information such as credit card
records, medical history, etc.
It's a crime even to threaten to, and you don't actually have to have the
information. Even pretending to have the information, and threatening to
disclose it is a criminal invasion of privacy. The same situation pertains
if you were to walk into a store and pretend to have a weapon hidden under
your jacket, and that you will shoot the cashier unless she opens the till.
You will be charged with uttering death threats; your inability to carry
out the threat has no bearing on the case.
Post by a***@asdf.net
A lot of information can be legitimately obtained from public sources. For
example: If someone mentions their home town in articles published on
these newsgroups, a simple call to directory assistance usually gets you
their phone number and street address. That is not a crime because the
information is published with the person's permission, in the phone book.
From the other side. Blake's birth name, home address and phone number
was published on a website that dynamited his credibility and begged
people to
complain to his ISP. Google reveals thousands of articles attacking Blake,
many of which come from the person presently accusing Blake. In a
courtroom it would be perfectly reasonable to present this evidence to and
ask why this misbehavior is deemed acceptable when Blake's is not.
Blake published his own address and phone number. Additionally, since he is
adamant about never wanting to get srs, and not wanting to get professional
help, he doesn't qualify as a transexual under Canadian law, so he will
always be legally a he. Most of the posters here are either thinking about
transition, in transition, or post-transition. Both those in transition and
post-transition have the legal right in Canada to be treated in their
target gender role. This was established in a case where a federal prisoner
who hadn't completed transition went to court and was awarded the right to
(1) be incarcerated in a womans' prison, and (2) federally-funded surgery
to complete here transition.

Unless Blake has changed his position vis. srs in the last few days, I don't
see how he's being treated unfairly by those he's threatened and harrassed.
Post by a***@asdf.net
While your concerns are understandable you must be cautious about your
biases in these situations. You appear to be making accusations of
criminality without proof and without concern for context. It seems
likely most courts would write this off as nothing but a cat-fight and
dismiss the
case when the actions of both sides are fully exposed. To make
accusations or suggest that others make accusations in such a circumstance
could open the door to reverse prosecution for harassment and making false
police reports.
I never posted to this group until I saw Blake threaten to to out someone.
As a Canadian, I am familiar with Canadian law, which most Americans
understandably would not be. Blake is subject to Canadian law because he is
posting from Canada.

In Canada, the police do not have the right to disclose the identity of a
complainant. As I said, we take our privacy laws seriously.

However, as I've made quite clear elsewhere, I am prepared to file charges
against anyone who threatens me in any way, because my past experience has
shown that people who make threats sometimes follow through with them, and
that NOT reporting such behaviour just encourages them to continue.
Post by a***@asdf.net
Post by hudson
Additionally, the evidence indicates that Blake has already outed people
who disagree with him.
Once again: what were the sources of Blake's information?
If he took information published by the victim --in phone books, here, on
various websites, etc.-- and put it all together no crime has been
committed because the information was in fact published by the victim
himself.
Moreover; if he used protected information disclosed by the victim in a
public place such as a website or here, there is no crime.
Not exactly. The threat to out someone, even if the information is available
from published sources, or from the victim herself, is illegal. Give you an
example. I tell you something that a reasonable person would conclude I
would not like my employer to know. You then threaten to tell my employer.
You have committed a crime as soon as you make the threat. I posted the
actual url to the section of the criminal code in another posting earlier
today. It makes interesting reading. Threatening smeone is a crime, pure
and simple :-)

It's all about intent. If you make threats, other than saying that you're
going to take legal action (which is the only exemption allowed under
Canadian law), you are guilty.
Post by a***@asdf.net
But if Blake published undisclosed protected information then you are
correct to think a crime may have been committed.
Once again you are left with the question of what information Blake has and
how he came into possession of it. Under Canada's laws it will fall to
the accusers and the crown to prove that Blake has protected information
and was intending to use it of malicious purposes.
As I said earlier, you don't understand how our laws work. It doesn't matter
if he has or doesn't have the information - just the threat is sufficient
cause for a complaint. All that has to be proven is that he is the author
of the threat to out someone. That the threat was made is proof enough that
there was malicious intent. "Res ipsa loquitur" - the thing speaks for
itself.

If it can additionally be proven that he actually had the information that
he claims to have, that would be grounds for an additional charge of
invasion of privacy, but that's a separate issue.

In retrospect I think I should have made it clearer that we are dealing with
several issues here:

1. Invasion of Privacy
2. Threats (in and of themselves)
3. Threats (when made against a member of a protected minority).

Each of these has a bearing on this issue. The most serious is (3) above,
which is classified as a hate crime in Canada.

Well, got to get back to work. Hope this helps :-)
a***@asdf.net
2004-04-20 20:28:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by hudson
I'll deal with your comments inline. Hope this gives a clearer picture of
exactly what the issues are vis. Canadian law :-)
Being a Canadian myself, I do have some idea how our laws work. There is a
very real difference between the letter of the law which you are fond of
quoting and the application of the law. That's one of the reasons why I
decided to speak up.

I can see where Blake is on the edge of criminality but I don't see a
criminal offense being committed. I can also see where the others have been
giving Blake a bad time for a quite a while but none of that rises to the
level of criminality either. I seriously doubt this is anything a Crown
would pick up as a viable case. It would have to be pressed through a
Justice of the Peace placing the onus of prosecution upon the accusers and
leaving them with the rather hefty expenses of prosecuting a case in a
foreign land.

Moreover, I've not seen anyone threaten you so I am left to wonder exactly
why you have picked this time to get involved. This has been going on for a
very long time. Why did you choose now to jump into the frey?
hudson
2004-04-19 07:53:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@asdf.net
Post by hudson
I'll deal with your comments inline. Hope this gives a clearer picture of
exactly what the issues are vis. Canadian law :-)
Being a Canadian myself, I do have some idea how our laws work. There is a
very real difference between the letter of the law which you are fond of
quoting and the application of the law. That's one of the reasons why I
decided to speak up.
I can see where Blake is on the edge of criminality but I don't see a
criminal offense being committed. I can also see where the others have
been giving Blake a bad time for a quite a while but none of that rises to
the
level of criminality either. I seriously doubt this is anything a Crown
would pick up as a viable case. It would have to be pressed through a
Justice of the Peace placing the onus of prosecution upon the accusers and
leaving them with the rather hefty expenses of prosecuting a case in a
foreign land.
Moreover, I've not seen anyone threaten you so I am left to wonder exactly
why you have picked this time to get involved. This has been going on for a
very long time. Why did you choose now to jump into the frey?
Because it HAS been going on for far too long. That nobody has threatened me
is a good thing, but that certainly doesn't give me license to stand by and
watch others being threatened.

As for whether its a viable case, the facts truly do speak for themselves.
Prosecutors have brught cases with far less evidence - for example, in "he
said, she said",cases, their attitude is "file the charges and let the
courts sort it out".

In this case, Blake admits to the act in question. It was only after I
posted the requisite information on how to file a complaint that Blake
claimed how it was "misinterpreted", though how that's possible is beyond
me. Of course, he also then went on to say that he might change his mind
...

This is supposed to be a support group for those wondering about/going
through srs, and their friends and family. Threatening to out people is not
supportive. It also has the side effect of keeping people away, some of who
might actually need a bit of support :-)

I don't want to sound legalistic, or a nit-picker, but it really has gone
too far. This whole thing is in bad taste, and people can end up not
getting the help they need, which would be a tragedy.
a***@asdf.net
2004-04-20 21:02:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by hudson
This is supposed to be a support group for those wondering about/going
through srs, and their friends and family. Threatening to out people is not
supportive. It also has the side effect of keeping people away, some of who
might actually need a bit of support :-)
Did the threats occur in this newsgroup? I was under the impression they
happened in a group for crossdressers and got crossposted here after the
fact.
Post by hudson
I don't want to sound legalistic, or a nit-picker, but it really has gone
too far. This whole thing is in bad taste, and people can end up not
getting the help they need, which would be a tragedy.
Blake said he's leaving. Why not let it go? It seems to me that by
dragging this out after he's gone all your really doing is inviting him
back.
hudson
2004-04-19 08:21:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@asdf.net
Blake said he's leaving. Why not let it go? It seems to me that by
dragging this out after he's gone all your really doing is inviting him
back.
If he's really gone, then all I can say is "Works for me" :-)

All I've done since my original post is respond to questions/posts such as
yours. I hope that hasn't been interpreted as a willingness to "drag things
out"; it was meant rather to show respect to posters such as yourself, by
answering your questions.

I haven't initiated any other threads, etc., and, except by mistake, have
kept the posts local to this group only (there were a couple that were
posted in reply to other groups - sorry about that :-(

I hope that this clarifies things and puts your mind at ease as to whether I
wanted to "drag things out" or not.
Jennifer Usher
2004-04-23 22:10:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@asdf.net
Blake said he's leaving. Why not let it go? It seems to me that by
dragging this out after he's gone all your really doing is inviting him
back.
That is what I am trying to do. Continuing to post about him only gives him
more of an excuse to return.
--
Jennifer Usher
Seven
2004-04-21 04:15:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by hudson
Post by a***@asdf.net
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:14:23 GMT, "Seven"
Post by Seven
That's pretty serious- but what has it to do with someone being "outed"
on
Post by hudson
Post by a***@asdf.net
Post by Seven
a
newsgroup? (not that I support that activity either)
Reading this mess, all I see is a lot of angry people playing childish
games.
Agreed that it's a mess.
Unfortunately, when people try to coerce others by threatening them, and
have exhibited this same pattern in the past when asked to stop, it's not
prudent to ignore, because you never know just how far they'll go.
Additionally, the evidence indicates that Blake has already outed people who
disagree with him.
You commented on ASDF's comments, but then noted my kludge line. (fyi)
Post by hudson
Now, since you posted using the name "I-prefer-privacy", I would think that
you'd agree that we should denounce thos who derive joy from violating
someone's privacy against both their wishes and current law.
Oh no... think of me as being like Switzerland. I read these groups
sporadically enough to know what's going on still, but not enough to be
involved. Frankly I think posting obsessively to newsgroups is in itself a
maladaptive behavior. There's nothing much "supportive" around here.
hudson
2004-04-19 05:09:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seven
Post by hudson
Post by a***@asdf.net
Post by Chris Schack
Post by Jennifer Usher
Lyle, I have forwarded a copy of this message, and the original to the
RCMP. I have also filed another complaint with your ISP.
It could be
the only threat here is to do essentially what you say YOU just did...
Filing a false police report is a minor felony in California.
Offenders can spend up to 5 years in jail.
The RCMP, last time I looked, were in Canada.
Also, the complaint was about threatening to "out" someone against their
will, which is considered a hate crime in Canada.
Is your right to privacy protected on some level in Canada? I was under
the impression that your identity, even post-operative (for transsexuals)
remained consistent with the birth-sex. Has that changed? Is it now a
crime for others to notice, or note it?
Your birth certificate is modified to show your new sex (Art. 71 of the
Quebec Civil Code in Quebec, various other articles in other provinces.
Cost is $125.00, includes change of first name to be consistent w. target
sex :-)

Since there is no legitimate reason to keep a record of someone's birth sex
after a sex change (except for hospitals desling w. you as a patient), it
is against PIPEDA (Personal Information Protection and Electronic
Documents Act) to keep this info on record.
Post by Seven
Post by hudson
We take hate crimes seriously up here - Montreal's police just formed a
new
Post by hudson
unit to deal specifically with hate crimes, including the recent torching
of a Jewish schools' library.
That's pretty serious- but what has it to do with someone being "outed" on a
newsgroup? (not that I support that activity either)
It's a crime because it's an invasion of the target's privacy, and privacy
is a protected right here in Canada.

Additionally, because the target is a member of a protected minority (at
both the provincial and federal level), it becomes more than an invasion of
privacy, law enforcement has to treat it as a hate crime. They don't have
the option of treating it solely as an invasion of privacy at that point.
As I said, in recent years we've started taking this much more seriously
than the States does, even post-9/11.
Seven
2004-04-21 04:16:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by hudson
It's a crime because it's an invasion of the target's privacy, and privacy
is a protected right here in Canada.
Additionally, because the target is a member of a protected minority (at
both the provincial and federal level), it becomes more than an invasion of
privacy, law enforcement has to treat it as a hate crime. They don't have
the option of treating it solely as an invasion of privacy at that point.
As I said, in recent years we've started taking this much more seriously
than the States does, even post-9/11.
Interesting. And thanks for answering my questions!
Amanda Angelika
2004-04-20 20:30:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@asdf.net
Post by Chris Schack
Post by Jennifer Usher
Lyle, I have forwarded a copy of this message, and the original to
the RCMP. I have also filed another complaint with your ISP.
It could be
the only threat here is to do essentially what you say YOU just did...
Filing a false police report is a minor felony in California.
Offenders can spend up to 5 years in jail.
Yes and one can go to Hell for it to
"Thou shalt not bare false witness"
--
Amanda
--
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hudson
2004-04-19 02:50:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Schack
Post by Jennifer Usher
Post by L D Blake
Post by Stephe
Never threated to do anything to you in 3D or otherwise, yet you now
are threatening my job, privacy etc?
Nope. Got no such plans. I've had the info for nearly 2 years, if I
was intending to do anything with it I'd have done it while it was
fresh.
However: if you keep going on like a drunken idiot and I just might
change my mind.
Lyle, I have forwarded a copy of this message, and the original to the RCMP.
I have also filed another complaint with your ISP. Not a joke, not a hoax,
not a threat. I seriously hope you take this opportunity to get
professional help. It might keep you out of jail.
I wonder if contacting the police where you live and detailing just
what is going on would qualify as using the information. It could be
the only threat here is to do essentially what you say YOU just did...
Chris Schack
Under the Canadian Criminal Code, the treat of legal action is specifically
exempted from being a criminal offense.

Neither is informing the ISP of a criminal act taking place using their
equipment, and allowing them to take action.

Now, threatening to out someone if they don't do what you want is a criminal
offense.

Here's the actual law <a
href=http://www.canlii.org/ca/sta/c-46/sec346.html>, as well as a
cut-and-past for those too lazy to click on a link :-)


--- snip

Criminal Code
PART IX OFFENCES AGAINST RIGHTS OF PROPERTY
Robbery and Extortion

Extortion


346. (1) Every one commits extortion who, without reasonable justification
or excuse and with intent to obtain anything, by threats, accusations,
menaces or violence induces or attempts to induce any person, whether or
not he is the person threatened, accused or menaced or to whom violence is
shown, to do anything or cause anything to be done.

Extortion


(1.1) Every person who commits extortion is guilty of an indictable offence
and liable

(a) where a firearm is used in the commission of the offence, to
imprisonment for life and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a
term of four years; and

(b) in any other case, to imprisonment for life.

Saving


(2) A threat to institute civil proceedings is not a threat for the purposes
of this section.

--- end snip

So, threatening to out someone if they don't stop pointing out how wrong you
are falls under the definition of extortion. Hope this helps :-)
Stephe
2004-04-21 00:22:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Schack
It could be
the only threat here is to do essentially what you say YOU just did...
Actually Chris, Laura threatened to post the information she's gathered
unless I changed the way I post on these newsgroups. And of course -she-
and she alone has to approve of what I say here from now on or at least
that's what she threatened to do a few days ago.

It was weird enough she claimed to have my driving record, vehicle
registration, credit report, job information etc but to then later say
-stop acting like a drunken idiot or I'll post this stuff, try to get you
fired etc- is OK with you?

I'm just trying to understand how far you'll go defending Laura's actions
and at what point you might consider she's gone over the top. As I recall
you felt it was OK for her to out Lacey, is there anything she could do
that would be too far for you?
--
Stephe
Chris Schack
2004-04-22 13:34:05 UTC
Permalink
In article <F_ihc.59795$***@bignews2.bellsouth.net>,
Stephe <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

<snip>
Post by Stephe
I'm just trying to understand how far you'll go defending Laura's actions
and at what point you might consider she's gone over the top. As I recall
you felt it was OK for her to out Lacey, is there anything she could do
that would be too far for you?
I'm pretty sure I didn't say that. Anyway, yes, there ARE limits, and
at one point she reached them. Specific actions get specific responses,
but I'm not going to be specific about the action or response. Suffice
to say that once that was over and done with, it WAS over and done with.

Chris Schack
(reading this is AFCD, I'm horribly behind on ASSRS thanks to spam...)
Stephe
2004-04-16 02:59:38 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:56:33 GMT, Veronica Moonlit
And there was NO plagiarism.
So, then, I take it you've read my manuscript?
No,
Then you cannot possibly have a meaningful opinion on the matter.
Explain to us how Lacey ended up with a copy of this "manuscript" you
claim she coppied. And how the book reads just like Lacey's posts do and
how she lives her life. You're just pissed that someone else has the
ability to publish a book, you never will and are also trying to change the
subject from the BS you've pulled.

Back on topic: WTF are you investigating me, doing illegal credit checks
etc when I've done NOTHING to affect your life as you claim is the reason
for doing this stuff?
--
Stephe
Jennifer Usher
2004-04-16 20:14:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Scott
I have been lurking for a little while now. Trying to get the feel of the
group. But I have to say that I for one am appalled that someone would even
do such a thing. Let alone be stupid enough to admit doing it. It is not
only a crime in the United States but also a violation of ones
constitutional right to privacy. If it were me I would not only be filling
criminal charges against Blake I would also be suing for the invasion of
privacy. I can say without that I will NEVER ask Blake for any advice after
or pay any attention to her after this statement. And her use of profanity
is really overwhelming. Blake is definitely going into my kill file.
That is the smartest way for most to deal with Blake. Of course, some have
to keep reading him in order to counter his lies, threats, and deceptions.
--
Jennifer Usher
Shae Guerin
2004-04-16 03:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jennifer Usher
would constitute a serious crime under United States law. It is highly
illegal to access someone's credit records without written permission.
"under United States law" - that says it all, hmm? Grab onto reality,
Jen. ANYONE can get a credit record check on anyone else - legality is
merely window dressing. Keeping hold of one's credit history is a
non-issue, because so many people have ready access to all those databases.

I'll not defend LB, as heshe simply overrreacts if one pushes the right
buttons, much like a reasonably adept AI program. I will point out that
the threat made has yet to be carried out, and that this molehill is
being made into a mountain of bits and vapour. Can you say "paper tiger"?

I got home today, got out of generic-gender work clothes, and slipped
into something comfortable. Saturday I head down to Red Deer to partake
in another of the local GLBT college group's gender bender evenings,
will be heartily appreciated and interacted with, and will have a damn
good time. This is far more important than the partly-literate threats,
counterthreats, and assorted silly maunderings of those of you who play
at this nonsense.

Give it up. Go buy a life. Again, WHAT THE F**K DOES THIS HAVE TO DO
WITH CROSSDRESSING, TG LIFE, SRS, OR ANYTHING TRULY WORTHWHILE???

Show pride, and have some fun for once!
Shae

http://www.tic.ab.ca/~shae/ -new pix added from the recent Winterfest...
Amanda Angelika
2004-04-16 12:40:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shae Guerin
Post by Jennifer Usher
would constitute a serious crime under United States law. It is
highly illegal to access someone's credit records without written
permission.
"under United States law" - that says it all, hmm? Grab onto reality,
Jen. ANYONE can get a credit record check on anyone else - legality is
merely window dressing. Keeping hold of one's credit history is a
non-issue, because so many people have ready access to all those databases.
It's not like that in the UK. I recently had reason to do a credit check
on myself because someone had been impersonating me under my old name
(credit fraud) and I wanted to see the extent of the damage. It isn't
particularly easy, you have to send original documents, such as bills
from your current address and even a pasport, birth certificate or
driver's licence, details of a name change etc to a special company
called "Experian" before they will send out this information, they are
very stringent.

This is because in the UK we have always had "The Data Protection act"
and there are some pretty heavy penalties for people or organisations
that contravene it incuding heavy fines and prison sentances.

of couse this is why unlike Americans whose information seems to be
plastered all over the internet or available to anyone for a small
premium, it is very difficult to find out information about British
Citizens. :)

The other interesting thing about the British system is it does extend
to the Internet and if someone were making treats like LB is making to
Stephe to a UK citizen it would be tantamout to admiting to a criminal
offence, and in serious cases there are extradition treaties in place
between the USA and Canada, the UK and most European countries and
offenders can be extradited to the UK for this and sent down for a long
time "at her magesties pleasure" :)

Anyone fancy a free holiday ROFL!
--
Amanda
--
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Jennifer Usher
2004-04-17 01:55:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shae Guerin
"under United States law" - that says it all, hmm? Grab onto reality,
Jen. ANYONE can get a credit record check on anyone else - legality is
merely window dressing. Keeping hold of one's credit history is a
non-issue, because so many people have ready access to all those databases.
Accessing credit records without proper authorization is a Federal offense.
It is, as best I recall, a felony. Yes, people have access to the
databases, but since it is possible to find out who has accessed your credit
records, someone doing this would be taking a risk. And with the issue of
identity theft becoming increasingly important, it is even more likely to
prosecuted.
--
Jennifer Usher
hudson
2004-04-16 13:18:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shae Guerin
Post by Shae Guerin
"under United States law" - that says it all, hmm? Grab onto reality,
Jen. ANYONE can get a credit record check on anyone else - legality is
merely window dressing. Keeping hold of one's credit history is a
non-issue, because so many people have ready access to all those
databases.
Accessing credit records without proper authorization is a Federal offense.
It is, as best I recall, a felony. Yes, people have access to the
databases, but since it is possible to find out who has accessed your credit
records, someone doing this would be taking a risk. And with the issue of
identity theft becoming increasingly important, it is even more likely to
prosecuted.
And remember, since Blake is posting from Canada, he's governed by stricter
laws. No organisation, including his so-called "private investigator", is
allowed to supply him with the information he claimed to have.

Additionally, Section B of the Constitution Act, 1982, guarantees privacy
rights, which he is violating. Again, even if the target of his act is in
another country, that does not make it any less an offence, especially
since he has targeted many transexuals, thus establishing the pattern
required for a successful prosecution for promoting hatred against an
identifiable group.

There are additional provincial laws that also govern this sort of thing (if
anyone is in the same province as Blake they can complain to their
provincial Human Rights Commission, which has the power to impose
substantial fines, and other penalties).
Jessika
2004-04-15 18:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by sbrsct
How do you know what I am treated like Laura? In a word you don't.
Actually I probably know a lot more about you than you would be
comfortable
with... Real name, home address, place of work, driver's license, credit
history, vehicle information... you know the standard stuff you get back
in an investigator's report.
Can you say cyberstalker?? Yea this is preeetty spooky even if she is just
running her mouth! I'm not even bothering to post the really ugly stuff she
posted and she's calling me hostile? :-)
Laura you're too much!
....and what was Blake's answer?? >>> "Nope... just simple
self-protection."
What Blake is doing is called terrorism. He is not only a bag of
wind. He is trying to put fear into your head that he is going to do
something to you if you don't leave him alone. I crossposted this
also to ASSRS so those people can also see how Blake is acting-up as
of late.
Anyone who would go to the trouble of paying for an extended search on
someone and then using it as leverage to get what he wants in public
usenet is obviously out to do no good. Blake has a reputation of
threatening and verbally abusing everyone who gets in his way. He is
either extremely *PARANOIC*, or he would not be doing those things.
In real-life, he would be thrown through a plate glass window if he
ever played those types of games...not that it hasn't already
happened.
Laura has the right to keep people from interfering in her life, and ...
liberty. Maybe she doesn't want just anyone minding her business but
herself.

Jess


--
I've tried so hard to tell myself that you're gone
But though you're still with me
I've been alone all along...
You used to capture me
In your resignating light
Beth
2004-04-16 05:23:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by sbrsct
How do you know what I am treated like Laura? In a word you don't.
Actually I probably know a lot more about you than you would be
comfortable
with... Real name, home address, place of work, driver's license,
credit
Post by sbrsct
history, vehicle information... you know the standard stuff you get
back
Post by sbrsct
in an investigator's report.
Can you say cyberstalker?? Yea this is preeetty spooky even if she is
just
Post by sbrsct
running her mouth! I'm not even bothering to post the really ugly
stuff
she
Post by sbrsct
posted and she's calling me hostile? :-)
Laura you're too much!
....and what was Blake's answer?? >>> "Nope... just simple
self-protection."
What Blake is doing is called terrorism. He is not only a bag of
wind. He is trying to put fear into your head that he is going to do
something to you if you don't leave him alone. I crossposted this
also to ASSRS so those people can also see how Blake is acting-up as
of late.
Anyone who would go to the trouble of paying for an extended search on
someone and then using it as leverage to get what he wants in public
usenet is obviously out to do no good. Blake has a reputation of
threatening and verbally abusing everyone who gets in his way. He is
either extremely *PARANOIC*, or he would not be doing those things.
In real-life, he would be thrown through a plate glass window if he
ever played those types of games...not that it hasn't already
happened.
Laura has the right to keep people from interfering in her life, and ...
liberty. Maybe she doesn't want just anyone minding her business but
herself.
Jess
--
I've tried so hard to tell myself that you're gone
But though you're still with me
I've been alone all along...
You used to capture me
In your resignating light
Hi Jess

Have you noticed this thread is in alt.fashion.crossdressing as well as
three other tg newsgroups. This is not uncommon regarding threads about
Laura or by Laura. She isn't such a private person as she gets everywhere
and interferes with other peoples lives in this newsgroup when she moves
from advice to dictate mode.

While I repect you for sticking up for Laura she doesn't need it and has the
solution to her own problems by backing off with the threats and just
learning to chill out. If she tries to be part of this community instead of
trying to run it I'm sure most people would get off her back.

Hugs

Beth
Jessika
2004-04-16 15:39:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beth
Post by Jessika
Laura has the right to keep people from interfering in her life, and ...
liberty. Maybe she doesn't want just anyone minding her business but
herself.
Jess
--
I've tried so hard to tell myself that you're gone
But though you're still with me
I've been alone all along...
You used to capture me
In your resignating light
Hi Jess
Have you noticed this thread is in alt.fashion.crossdressing as well as
three other tg newsgroups. This is not uncommon regarding threads about
Laura or by Laura. She isn't such a private person as she gets everywhere
and interferes with other peoples lives in this newsgroup when she moves
from advice to dictate mode.
While I repect you for sticking up for Laura she doesn't need it and has the
solution to her own problems by backing off with the threats and just
learning to chill out. If she tries to be part of this community instead of
trying to run it I'm sure most people would get off her back.
Hugs
Beth
Who knows? Maybe one day she'll be gone and we won't be describing her and
her antics with every post, nor will anyone have to see that when they
visit. ;)
Funk. So much for being bi-gender.


Jess


--
I've tried so hard to tell myself that you're gone
But though you're still with me
I've been alone all along...
You used to capture me
In your resignating light
Amanda Angelika
2004-04-16 20:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jessika
Post by Beth
Post by Jessika
Laura has the right to keep people from interfering in her life,
and ... liberty. Maybe she doesn't want just anyone minding her
business but herself.
Jess
--
I've tried so hard to tell myself that you're gone
But though you're still with me
I've been alone all along...
You used to capture me
In your resignating light
Hi Jess
Have you noticed this thread is in alt.fashion.crossdressing as well
as three other tg newsgroups. This is not uncommon regarding
threads about Laura or by Laura. She isn't such a private person
as she gets everywhere and interferes with other peoples lives in
this newsgroup when she moves from advice to dictate mode.
While I repect you for sticking up for Laura she doesn't need it and
has the solution to her own problems by backing off with the threats
and just learning to chill out. If she tries to be part of this
community instead of trying to run it I'm sure most people would get
off her back.
Hugs
Beth
Who knows? Maybe one day she'll be gone and we won't be describing
her and her antics with every post, nor will anyone have to see that
when they visit. ;)
Funk. So much for being bi-gender.
OMG we'd all implode into the vacuum LOL
--
Amanda
--
Art auctions:
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Jennifer Usher
2004-04-16 20:16:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jessika
Laura has the right to keep people from interfering in her life, and ...
liberty. Maybe she doesn't want just anyone minding her business but
herself.
No one is interfering in Lyle "Laura" Blake's life. He is reacting to
someone who was once a supporter having the audacity to disagree with him.
Lyle takes disagreement as a personal attack. It is not a matter of him
protecting himself. He is threatening others, and he needs to face the
consequences.
--
Jennifer Usher
Jessika
2004-04-16 20:20:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jennifer Usher
Post by Jessika
Laura has the right to keep people from interfering in her life, and ...
liberty. Maybe she doesn't want just anyone minding her business but
herself.
No one is interfering in Lyle "Laura" Blake's life. He is reacting to
someone who was once a supporter having the audacity to disagree with him.
Lyle takes disagreement as a personal attack. It is not a matter of him
protecting himself. He is threatening others, and he needs to face the
consequences.
--
Jennifer Usher
So Laura has a hard time agreeing with people, she isn't harassing OR
threatening them in her attempt to keep others' opinions out of her way. She
can't be sued for that. It's life, I don't understand why y'all just don't
leave each other alone, you're only making matters worse.


Jess
hudson
2004-04-15 22:31:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jessika
Post by Jennifer Usher
Post by Jessika
Laura has the right to keep people from interfering in her life, and
... liberty. Maybe she doesn't want just anyone minding her business
but herself.
No one is interfering in Lyle "Laura" Blake's life. He is reacting to
someone who was once a supporter having the audacity to disagree with him.
Lyle takes disagreement as a personal attack. It is not a matter of him
protecting himself. He is threatening others, and he needs to face the
consequences.
--
Jennifer Usher
So Laura has a hard time agreeing with people, she isn't harassing OR
threatening them in her attempt to keep others' opinions out of her way.
She can't be sued for that. It's life, I don't understand why y'all just
don't leave each other alone, you're only making matters worse.
Jess
That's where you're wrong. Canadian law is quite clear. You cannot threaten
to "out" people. You cannot threaten to release personal information about
them that may be likely to embarrass them. You cannot even possess credit
and other information without their express consent.

Blake has threatened to out people, he claims to hold such information, etc.
It's illegal. It's a Criminal Code offense. It's not just "lieing".
Stephe
2004-04-17 04:04:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jessika
So Laura has a hard time agreeing with people, she isn't harassing OR
threatening them in her attempt to keep others' opinions out of her way.
Uh yes that is -exactly- what she is doing.

Yesterday she replied if I don't leave, she'll post this information. What
is that?
--
Stephe
Jessika
2004-04-17 14:38:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephe
Post by Jessika
So Laura has a hard time agreeing with people, she isn't harassing OR
threatening them in her attempt to keep others' opinions out of her way.
Uh yes that is -exactly- what she is doing.
Yesterday she replied if I don't leave, she'll post this information. What
is that?
--
Stephe
Well obviously, something she hadn't threatened me with for one good reason
or another....

Jess
Stephe
2004-04-17 15:54:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jessika
Post by Stephe
Post by Jessika
So Laura has a hard time agreeing with people, she isn't harassing OR
threatening them in her attempt to keep others' opinions out of her way.
Uh yes that is -exactly- what she is doing.
Yesterday she replied if I don't leave, she'll post this information.
What is that?
Well obviously, something she hadn't threatened me with for one good
reason or another....
You're suporting her attacks on people so why would she? Seems like a 'good
reason' to me! :-)
--
Stephe
Stephe
2004-04-16 03:07:38 UTC
Permalink
Can you say cyberstalker??
Nope... just simple self-protection.
First someone has to at least threaten you for you to need self protection.
I've never done anything of the sort. This feels like the terroristic crap
Diane used to pull to silence people who disagreed with her. YOU are the
one who is doing the threatening saying you know where I work, that I
should start looking for a new job etc.

You've already posted my old real name several times lately when I've asked
you each time not to invade my privacy. Now you're threating and illegally
gathering information about me "for protection" against what? My further
disagreements with you and your opinions? For bringing up your past outings
of people and problems you continue to cause on the TG/TS support groups?

Get some help Laura, your paranoia is getting the best of you!
--
Stephe
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